On 04/21/2018 07:51 PM, William Morder wrote: > Since we are getting into other stuff, I am starting a new thread. Maybe > it should be two threads? And what a post it is. >> On 04/21/2018 04:13 PM, William Morder wrote: > >> > I stand at the brink of Devuan, not quite ready to take the plunge >> myself, > yet >> > share in your dislike of systemd and how Debian is inching into a >> rule of the >> > few over the many. And I fear that it will soon drift into the same >> kind > > of >> > crap that ruined Kubuntu (and the whole Ubuntu family) for me. There >> are > > just >> > one or two refinements I want to make in my current system (so that >> I can >> > find my way back when I get into a mess). >> I'm sorry to hear you have systemd installed and you're not happy with >> it, if I knew what version you are using I could make a suggestion, I >> run all LTS versions or Debian and Ubuntu and now Devuan too.� For >> hard drive management I use Wheezy and Jessie, for multimedia I use >> the latest. > For the most part my system runs pretty well, except for hanging when I > try to reboot (as explained below). > What I would really like is to get VLC working right again. It was > always the best all-round multimedia player, and now it crashes every > time I open it. I searched round for solutions, and all I've found so > far are suggestions to go back to the Wheezy repositories for older > versions of VLC. Yet another user here in the Trinity group had the same > problems with VLC, and he was already using Wheezy. I don't know what > the problem is, but there is another great piece of software ruined. Bill have you taken a look at SMPlayer? First you install MPlayer, talking about an old app, and then install SMPlayer. >> Currently I'm looking at keeping some older systems around by rolling >> my own kernels.� There's always options.� And slicing off another >> partition for a new install is another option. > I run Debian Jessie, and systemd seems to cause the system to hang in > particular when I reboot. I always see that systemd is doing something, > and cannot shut down. I created a kind of script to kill running > programs, and this has pretty much solved the problem, but I still feel > that my current Debian system does not run quite as smoothly as my older > systems used to run. > All in good time, though. I rarely have incidents any more which cause > me to scream, pull out my hair, and call down curses upon the heads of > the devs. Devuan is old school Linux, like Debian a few years ago and most release bugs get fixed in mins. not days or weeks. >> As for Ubuntu, they have messed up big-time and now they are on my >> list of things I don't want to do anymore and now Microsoft won't be >> lonely any more. :) > It's never lonely at the bottom. >> > The icon is nice, but I would recommend that all Devuan branding > >> distinguish > itself from Debian by making the spiral go round >> widdershins: that is, >> > counter-clockwise. Then it would be perfect. >> I hear you, it was just something I slapped together. > No problem, it was just a suggestion. If Debian do not complain, then > there is no obligation to change it. But since Devuan is a fork of > Debian, and thus technically "different" from it, I thought it might be > wise to think ahead. > > One could also say, for example, that TDE *is* really just KDE, but I > believe some people out there will object. Likewise, you could say that > Icecat *is* really just Iceweasel, which is really just Firefox. You > could even say that *rock-n-roll* is really just *the blues* + *country > music*. > I do recognize that all categories are, to some degree, arbitrary and > influenced by personal biases, etc. They can also be useful, however, to > indicate that (for example) Devuan has struck out in a slightly > different direction, which in my opinion is truer to Debian's mission > than Debian itself currently operates. Well, KDE is a name, not just a trade mark and it's not KDE's desktop any longer, nor is it abandoned any longer, TDE belongs to Trinity. As for the Debian Universal Logo, it's been used many a desktop on many kinds of Debian forked systems, because if it was not for Debian what we are doing today would other ways not be posable. But Devuan is not just a fork it's now the real Debian with a new name. Debian is now a blob, sudo windows some say and systemd is compared to the windows registry. But the logo will always be Debian and may Ian always be remembered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Murdock >> You do know that Devuan IS Debian don't you?� The only changes made >> effect systemd and the packages needed so you can install the desktop >> of choice, like udev and libpam, really just a hand full of packages >> are changed. I'm running Devuan from Debian's Sid to Jessie, in other >> words Devuan Jessie/Jessie, ASCII/Stretch, Beowulf/Buster and >> Ceres/Sid and Trinity is a clean install on them all with no real >> problem, All around Devuan Jessie is the best! > Yes, but the only practical way for me to get Devuan is to install > Debian first, then migrate to Devuan. I have tried to install from the > Devuan live DVD, and it wants to overwrite my home folder, with no other > option. Please use the net install iso. https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie/installer-iso/ Put Puppy Linux on a USB drive and you can edit your system. Puppy is made for those things, like Knoppix only Puppy is small and fast. http://www.knopper.net/index-en.html http://puppylinux.org/main/Download%20Latest%20Release.htm#xenialpup Just use the Devuan net-install and then install tde-trinity and firmware-linux, after your first boot of course. I put everything I want to save in /home, I also save /mnt and and put fstab in home too. and delete everything else, don't forget to show hidden, also I delete system files in home and then do a no-format install. > I have a backup, of course, but this does not seem quite right. > I have found instructions for migrating from Debian to Devuan, without > the necessity of reinstalling my system, so that is my plan. However, I > have yet a couple loose ends to tie up, so that I can revert to my > working system if necessary, when I will inevitably mess up something > due to experimentation. Both udev and systemd get removed by installing Devuan packages and it's a bit tricky, but doable, I've done it a few times, Jessie is not too hard to do because it dose not have many packages that depend on systemd. > Also, I have other responsibilities, various little jobs, and other > things that I must do, as there is a life outside computers, and a whole > world waiting to be explored just outside my door; or so I hear. I would love to hear about your whole world sometime. I've done many a thing besides computers, most of my life has been way outdoors exploring since I was a child I would go for long walks over hill and dale and also I have a love for live music, but from '94 on it's been pretty much computers apple and pc and many kinds of operating systems besides windows and apple there was novell and sco and I used to be a Microsoft Partner for eight years, they think I still am. From '94 to 2002 I was installing every linux distro I could download staying at the cutting edge drooling for the next beta release, by 2002 I was pretty much stuck on Debian and it's forks, I now have more than 40 systems installed over seven computers, my main testing computer has more than 20 systems. >> Bill just take away one thing from this post: If it's not fun don't do >> it. > I wish somebody had told me this back when I was in grad school. Cheers! -- Jimmy Johnson Devuan ASCII - TDE Trinity R14.0.5 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda6 Registered Linux User #380263