On Saturday 30 June 2018 20:17:07 Felmon Davis wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2018, William Morder wrote:
> > However, you missed what are, for me, the most important points:
> > 1. LibreOffice messes up my documents, so that I would have to redo
> > thousands of pages of layout. Usually the pages are only off by a couple
> > lines between my OpenOffice version and the LibreOffice, but over the the
> > length of an entire document, everything gets screwed-up, and I would be
> > forced to begin all over again, almost from scratch.
> >
> > 2. LibreOffice often refuses to open my own documents; even after I
> > change permissions, remove lock files, etc.
> >
> > 3. When I did complain about my problems with LibreOffice, I was
> > basically told just to "get over it"; sort of like when KDE3 died. When
> > people started mentioning the possibility of reviving the old KDE3 as
> > TDE, we were told that it wouldn't work, that it couldn't work, that
> > there were problems with Qt3, Qt4, etc. And anyway, anybody who didn't
> > just give up and "get with it" and stop complaining and just use KDE4
> > Plasma must be old fogies, and nobody cares about them anyway.
>
> in case people don't know, there is also a libreoffice mailing list
> for users, which is quite active. and I get the impression reading it
> that it is very helpful.
>
> > 4. I don't like LibreOffice. I do like OpenOffice. (See #8 below.)
>
> I have limited experience with Libreoffice but I do much prefer
> OpenOffice.
>
> with OO on a yearly basis I have put together 60-page volumes with
> footnotes (numbering beginning at each 'chapter'), table of contents
> and modest use of paragraph styling (chapter headers, footnotes,
> indented paragraphs for extended quotes, bibliography). so, for me, it
> works.
>
> > 5. I didn't recommend "OpenOffice for Everybody!"; I only said that some
> > few might prefer it (for example, myself and deloptes, to start); and
> > others might find that it suits their needs. I don't feel that I must
> > take on the responsibility of maintaining OpenOffice merely because I
> > have made a qualified and limited recommendation.
> >
> > 6. I do not doubt that OpenOffice has some security holes; most stuff out
> > there as some problems, and some have more than others. Please direct me
> > towards some software that has absolutely no security holes, as I've
> > never encountered a virgin in the real world.
>
> "virgin" is not the same as bug-free (in this context).
>
There is a pun involved, about twice-removed. Anybody whose mind works in the 
same way as mine might have got it already, so I won't spell it out. 

In any case, I don't use macros, don't load external references like active 
hyperlinks, and don't use my Office programs for anything online. 

> I can't judge the security issues. documents I send or receive are
> .doc, .docx or .pdf since most people I correspond with use Word. but
> looking at the CVE site, I haven't figured out an effective way to
> compare vulnerabilities <https://www.cvedetails.com/>. the few I've
> read there would likely not affect me.
>
> > 7. LibreOffice tends to do a lot of stuff that takes control out of my
> > own hands. (I haven't used it for a while, so no, I don't have a list
> > handy, but perhaps others can help there.)
>
> LO is too 'busy', I find the interface distracting and need to master
> the very fluid update system: "fresh", "still" and so on. but like
> with almost anything on a computer, I'd get used to it if I had to.
>
> > 8. I do like OpenOffice. I don't like LibreOffice. (See #4 above.)
> >
> > As I said, it might not be for everybody, but maybe for a few people it
> > is still useful. You seem to be saying that nobody ought to use it, and
> > that I am wrong even to bring it up. So much for WORLD PEACE.
>
> the objections seemed appropriate and fair warning but I find them
> hard to assess. in any case, I hope world peace does not require
> agreement.
>
I would never have brought up OpenOffice at all, except for a remark, now lost 
in an earlier thread, about how LibreOffice didn't work in dep's situation. 

World Peace (or Word Peace) requires only that we can get along. I made an 
offer to try to help somebody else, and was told that it was irresponsible of 
me to recommend a program, the security of which is perhaps dubious, when I 
did not take on the work of maintaining the repository and bug fixes myself. 
To me that sounds absurd; all we need is a warning to use at our own risk. 

> f.

Thanks for your voice. It is good to know that there are others who still 
prefer OpenOffice to LibreOffice. My own hope is that either OO or LO, or 
both, will get it together, and then maybe in another 20 years, we will have 
Office software that actually works for writers who create very long 
documents. If one writes only short pieces for newspapers or blogs, then I am 
sure that LibreOffice works okay. 

I am playing end-game here. I don't have time to wait until something comes 
out that will satisfy everybody everywhere. I only need something that 
is "good enough" for here and now, that will allow me to finish a long 
project while I am still alive to see it in print. 

Bill