Am Donnerstag, 18. September 2014 schrieb Curt Howland:
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Mike Bird <mgb-trinity@...> wrote:
> > Gnu/Linux probably does need a new init, and something along the
> > lines of the core 1% of systemd with optional cgroups support would
> > be a good approach.
> 
> Just like X, sysvinit was proclaimed in need of replacement many years
> ago, for many reasons.
> 
> The problem is that the functionality of these packages has been built
> over time to answer particular problems. Any new system is going to
> have to go through exactly the same process, the slow evolution of
> "Gee, I didn't think anyone used it for that."
> 
> Sysvinit allowed for parallel boot without changing "everything". And
> it's especially good at being able to change pretty much any single
> component without a reboot.
> 
> This kind of flexibility will, I believe, turn out to be more
> important than the systemd developers believe it to be.
> 
> I will echo that, being just a user, I am happy to use whatever works.
> 
> > I thank Tim and Sl�vek and others for making TDE optionally work
> > with systemd without depending upon systemd - unlike Debian where
> > systemd proponents are frantically changing packages to unnecessarily
> > require systemd.
> 
> Indeed. Thank you.
> 
> Curt-
> 

Just some system-rafiness from debian jessie: 

Logfiles are binary. So you can't simply boot with a live disto and look at the logfiles. Better even, there are no persistent logfiles by default. Well, who would care to look at logfiles, anyway? 

systemd/logind/journald/networkd/usersession share PID 1. Great, if somthing there goes haywire you have to reboot the system, 'cause you cannot kill one of these processes individually. On the other hand, who would ever have a system running more than a week, now that it's booting so fast? Well, and for the Windows user we have implemented the "reboot after upgrade"-feature at last. Now isn't that great?

Maybe these points are of no value for desktop users, but it's essential in my business that systems run reliably and can quite well be fixed remotely. That's not the case with systemd any more. It's diametrically to unix philosophy. It's more like "One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them" than "Freedom of choice"

If systemd will become mandatory on Debian I already see myself packing things up and move to an other Unix land. Well, hopefully TDE will work on FreeBSD or OpenBSD then :-)

Nik


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