On Wednesday 19 November 2014 10:17:14 Michael . wrote:
> I find the negativity pointless, it achieves nothing.

I'm not trying to achieve anything.  I think that for me the combination of 
Mint and MATE is awful.  All I am trying to achieve - which is clearly 
achievable - is to stop using it.

> With regards to accepting my reply let me ask you did you take the time to
> let the MATE devs (Clem at Linux Mint is not a MATE dev) know and make
> suggestions on how to make it easier to use?

How do you suggest that I should have done that?  That does require being able 
to see what one is doing, you know.  I did take the time, quite a lot of 
time, in fact, to try to make it more usable.

> In other words did you file a 
> bug report based on usability? If you did do you have the number? I can
> check it for you and let you know what's being done. If you didn't then I
> would suggest you do in order to help a small project make itself better
> and be more usable.

Even had it been reasonably possible, which it isn't and wasn't on that 
computer, why should I?  And why should I care what happens to MATE and Mint?   
I wish them luck, but have no stake in whether they succeed or not, nor any 
preference for MATE over Cinnamon. Had the combination cared about people 
like me, it wouldn't have been so awful in the first place.  If it didn't 
care then, i.e. before, why would it care now?  But do remember, the 
main "fault" may be Mint's.

If _you_ want to file a bug report, a good start for the Mint/MATE combination 
would be to have a visible mouse pointer (I actually couldn't see it) and 
legible text at first boot up.   Don't tell me that anyone seriously thought 
that tiny light grey text on a pale grey transparent background, with a pale 
green pattern behind it, would be usable by the sight-challenged?

I'm not complaining.  Lots of people love Mint/MATE and that is great.  But I 
am allowed to dislike it if I want.

> The vast majority of Linux, especially small scale projects like MATE and
> TDE, is done by volunteers. Posting that things are "awful" does not help
> Linux at all when nothing is being done to help. If we use emotional
> responses to things we do not like and not file bug reports then
> complaining is pointless.

I'm not complaining, and haven't complained.  I merely used an adjective to 
which you object.  I'm switching to TDE, and if that doesn't solve my problem 
(I don't know how much is due to Mint) I shall retreat back to Debian (with 
TDE, of course).  I have an emotional response when I am tired, and am 
struggling to see.  I feel, and am, shut out.  The Mint/MATE developers are 
developing for the young with 20/20 vision.  They have that right.  Good luck 
to them.  I have the right to find the result awful, and not to use it!

I am well aware that FLOSS is run by volunteers and am very grateful to them.  
I say so frequently, and endeavour to help when I am able with anything I 
use.  I do too little, but I accept that I have a responsibility.  But I 
can't and don't accept responsibility for every FLOSS project.

> I appreciate your point of view and respect your opinion as an opinion
> however I cannot accept that the criticism is fair and anything more than
> an emotional response if you have done nothing to help projects that you
> are using to make their product better.

I do help products I am using, if I can.  Are you saying that I shouldn't even 
look at any other projects to see what I think?  Or that if I want to look at 
anything I have to help everything?  The criticism is entirely fair.  From 
where I am standing that particular combination is awful.  I have put a lot 
of effort in and have got it *almost* usable.  But it is still awful, so I am 
stopping trying to use it.

I'm not helping with Mint/MATE because basically I am not intending to use it.  
It is, from my point of view, wrong at too basic a level, for the odd bug fix 
to solve the problem.  Tim says wait a bit, so I shall wait.  But I shall run 
home to TDE from MATE with a sigh of relief.

Your basic thesis, that one is never allowed to say anything negative about 
anything Open Source is clearly ridiculous.  It's not as if I expect anyone 
to do anything about it.  Is your thesis that, if people are paid to do 
something, their work can be criticised, but if they are volunteers then 
everyone has to say that the results of everything they do are marvellous all 
the time?  Perhaps you would like to publish a list of the adjectives that 
one is allowed to use when mentioning anything Open Source?

If you want to carry on with this, perhaps we should take it off list.

Lisi