Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-30 10:43 (UTC-0400): > But as I said, I have no trouble with the installer. Until now this was never clear to me. > The Debian Jessie installer has been well > thought out in terms of disability and is great. It's been a while since I've done a Debian installation, so don't know if there's any significant difference between its "Jessie" installer and older or Vivid's, or if there is more than one Debian installer to choose from. > Anything that can be installed at installation time is no trouble. But sadly > TDE can't be. Understood. > I either have to install without a DE and install one later, > or install one of those offered. Understood. > It is the post installation tty that I can't see. So I can't install, reboot, > then install a TDE from the command line. So now the question is what's different between using Jessie and the post-installation ttys? Is Jessie a GUI-mode installer, or still a text-based one *buntu's mini.iso shares? It sounds like Jessie is radically different from any Debian installer I've ever seen. The post-Etch, post-installation ttys for both Debian and Ubuntu for me were for years a significant reason why I've rarely used either. But apparently something's changed not so long ago, probably as a result of post-KMS, post-sysvinit evolution of console-setup and/or font handling. Trusty 14.04, on the machine I just installed Vivid on, by default still uses spindly, ugly fonts on the ttys, along with low contrast colors, in spite of use of video display options on cmdline that since last century have worked nicely in all non-Debians I've ever used. In Vivid that's no longer the case. Whether this was new in Utopic or in Vivid is intentional rather than a bug I can't say. Absent display of /etc/issue on a tty just above the login prompt, I wouldn't know I'd just booted Vivid instead of openSUSE, Fedora or Mageia. > So I install a DE at installation time, boot it up, launch its terminal > emulator, configure said terminal emulator to be legible (by me) and install > TDE. Until now, it wasn't clear to me your meaning of the term "terminal emulator". AFAIK, most KDE and TDE users refer to what you call a terminal emulator by the proper name of their DE's native incarnation of a terminal, Konsole, or one of the alternatives' proper names, such as Xterm. "About" in Konsole 1.6.6 in Trinity R14.0.0 reports "X terminal for use with TDE", not terminal emulator. In the R14 menu Konsole is called a terminal program, not a terminal emulator. So, I wasn't aware you were even in X, as opposed to using some emulation application on an entirely different computer. > It doesn't have to be LXDE that I install, but LXDE is the lightest on > offer. >> I have a hard time imagining a terminal emulator doing better than either >> of these two simple to implement configurations. > For the record, a terminal emulator _can_, and _does_, do better. Clarity > matters too. A lot. And a terminal emulator, which is a GUI application, > can produce larger text without so significantly reducing clarity. I fully agree Konsole affords a lot better quality than traditional Debian vttys provide by default. > You get better clarity with 1280x1024 than with 640x480, and you can enlarge > by increasing the number of pixels, not only by spreading the pixels thinner. > In fact, in the ordinary way you have to do so in a GUI. I explain these very things in an X context to people quite often, and more often to web stylists in A11Y/U7Y discussion. Pixels are a scourge on PC users that dates back over two decades. When Windows 95 came out, the best commonly available displays were '17"' CRTs that measured 16" diagonally, offering a whopping ugly 1024x768 @80 DPI. Improving to 96 DPI or more took a *lot* more money to get either 1280x1024 (a 5:4 ratio squished into a 4:3 physical area using non-square pixels) and/or larger size, or using a smaller display causing sufferance of everything being tiny. When I explain pixels and DPI to people I typically cite previous explanations, such as these oldies: http://style.cleverchimp.com/font_size/points/font_wars.GIF http://blogs.msdn.com/b/fontblog/archive/2005/11/08/490490.aspx http://tidbits.com/article/5284 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12474 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16927 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23705 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26608 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41115 On a somewhat related note Lisi, a very few significant web sites (besides http://www.trinitydesktop.org/ ) seem to have gotten that user settings ought to be respected and embraced. I'm interested if you have any opinion on some I've noticed: http://www.cnn.com/ http://www.gallupstrengthscenter.com/ http://www.pa.gov/ http://www.zeldman.com/ http://7online.com/ -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
