Message: previous - next
Month: March 2015

Re: [trinity-users] Initializing vtty text size

From: Felix Miata <mrmazda@...>
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 17:39:36 -0400
Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-30 10:43 (UTC-0400):

> But as I said, I have no  trouble with the installer. 

Until now this was never clear to me.

> The Debian Jessie installer has been well
> thought out in terms of disability and is great.  

It's been a while since I've done a Debian installation, so don't know if
there's any significant difference between its "Jessie" installer and older
or Vivid's, or if there is more than one Debian installer to choose from.

> Anything that can be installed at installation time is no trouble.  But sadly 
> TDE can't be.


> I either have to install without a DE and install one later, 
> or install one of those offered.


> It is the post installation tty that I can't see.  So I can't install, reboot, 
> then install a TDE from the command line. 

So now the question is what's different between using Jessie and the
post-installation ttys? Is Jessie a GUI-mode installer, or still a text-based
one *buntu's mini.iso shares? It sounds like Jessie is radically different
from any Debian installer I've ever seen.

The post-Etch, post-installation ttys for both Debian and Ubuntu for me were
for years a significant reason why I've rarely used either.

But apparently something's changed not so long ago, probably as a result of
post-KMS, post-sysvinit evolution of console-setup and/or font handling.
Trusty 14.04, on the machine I just installed Vivid on, by default still uses
spindly, ugly fonts on the ttys, along with low contrast colors, in spite of
use of video display options on cmdline that since last century have worked
nicely in all non-Debians I've ever used.

In Vivid that's no longer the case. Whether this was new in Utopic or in
Vivid is intentional rather than a bug I can't say. Absent display of
/etc/issue on a tty just above the login prompt, I wouldn't know I'd just
booted Vivid instead of openSUSE, Fedora or Mageia.

> So I install a DE at installation time, boot it up, launch its terminal 
> emulator, configure said terminal emulator to be legible (by me) and install 
> TDE. 

Until now, it wasn't clear to me your meaning of the term "terminal
emulator". AFAIK, most KDE and TDE users refer to what you call a terminal
emulator by the proper name of their DE's native incarnation of a terminal,
Konsole, or one of the alternatives' proper names, such as Xterm. "About" in
Konsole 1.6.6 in Trinity R14.0.0 reports "X terminal for use with TDE", not
terminal emulator. In the R14 menu Konsole is called a terminal program, not
a terminal emulator. So, I wasn't aware you were even in X, as opposed to
using some emulation application on an entirely different computer.

> It doesn't have to be LXDE that I install, but LXDE is the lightest on
> offer.

>> I have a hard time imagining a terminal emulator doing better than either
>> of these two simple to implement configurations.

> For the record, a terminal emulator _can_, and _does_, do better.  Clarity 
> matters too.  A lot.   And a terminal emulator, which is a GUI application, 
> can produce larger text without so significantly reducing clarity.  

I fully agree Konsole affords a lot better quality than traditional Debian
vttys provide by default.

> You get better clarity with 1280x1024 than with 640x480, and you can enlarge 
> by increasing the number of pixels, not only by spreading the pixels thinner.  
> In fact, in the ordinary way you have to do so in a GUI.

I explain these very things in an X context to people quite often, and more
often to web stylists in A11Y/U7Y discussion. Pixels are a scourge on PC
users that dates back over two decades. When Windows 95 came out, the best
commonly available displays were '17"' CRTs that measured 16" diagonally,
offering a whopping ugly 1024x768 @80 DPI. Improving to 96 DPI or more took a
*lot* more money to get either 1280x1024 (a 5:4 ratio squished into a 4:3
physical area using non-square pixels) and/or larger size, or using a smaller
display causing sufferance of everything being tiny. When I explain pixels
and DPI to people I typically cite previous explanations, such as these oldies:

On a somewhat related note Lisi, a very few significant web sites (besides ) seem to have gotten that user settings ought
to be respected and embraced. I'm interested if you have any opinion on some
I've noticed:
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***