Lisi Reisz wrote: > On Thursday 19 May 2016 07:50:32 deloptes wrote: >> Felmon Davis wrote: >> > On Wed, 18 May 2016, Felix Miata wrote: >> >> Lisi Reisz composed on 2016-05-18 16:40 (UTC+0100): >> >>> Jan Stolarek composed on 2016-05-18 17:33 (UTC+0200): >> >>>> As for Ctrl+Up/Down for tab switching to me this is >> >>>> counter-intuitive. Tabs >> >>>> are displayed horizontally. Using keys for vertical movement to >> >>>> switch between them does not make much sense to me. >> >> >> >> This is why an alternate tab switching option employed in other apps >> >> includes the tab key. >> >> >> >> Did you ever use a real tab, such as sheets in a ring binder or pages >> >> in a printed manual? Those tabs are each an extension of a layer >> >> constituted of one or more pages. Even today, paper manuals often use >> >> pseudo-tabs, pages with contrasting colors at different positions on >> >> pages' ends to correspond to different chapters, e.g. my Magnavox DVR >> >> and Brother printer. >> >> >> >>> They are numbered 1,2,3,4 etc. One usually regards numbers as going >> >>> up and down. >> >> >> >> Not so much that as the physics of real rather than virtual tabs. Yes, >> >> they look like they are horizontal, but each real tab is attached to a >> >> layer. Each can overlap one or more others, completely hiding them. >> >> One goes up and down through anything that is layered, unless the >> >> whole layered stack is stood on end, in which case movement within >> >> layers in the stack becomes fore and aft, not side to side. >> > >> > wow! people are really taking a metaphor very seriously! someone calls >> > a bit of coding a 'tab' and that generates an argument about whether >> > the coding should look like a book! >> > >> > as I vaguely recall there were similar scholastic arguments about the >> > metaphor of a 'desktop' or 'folders' and such. >> > >> > these arguments are as difficult to settle as the dispute Swift >> > recounts of the quarrel between the 'Big-endians' and 'Little-endians' >> > in _Gulliver's Travels_! and that was causa belli! >> > >> > (itself a parodic mirror of the dispute between 'Catholic' vs >> > 'Protestant' in Ireland, well of course this wasn't purely >> > theological....) >> > >> > say here's what we do: let's code 'tabs' so they go up and down the >> > right or left side for the 'Up-endians' and so they go along the >> > bottom or top for 'side-winders'! >> > >> > I'm a 'side-winder' myself but will willingly concede the word 'tab' >> > to the 'Up-endians' if they insist - what's in a name? >> > >> > but my fellow side-winders will insist on their metaphysics: tabs are >> > 'really' left-right, after all some books have tabs at the top or >> > bottom so.... >> > >> > f. >> >> Lisi, >> "tab" is coming from the maps with tabs AFAIK - from the paper world. >> This is a normal process in language(s) to use the description of >> something old for something new with similar function. >> Some are horizontal, some are vertical. >> The relation between the tabulator button and the tab/folder is however >> not clear to me. And to me it is a mere convention that we use ALT+Tab to >> switch between application windows, CTRL+PgUp/PgDn to switch between tabs >> in firefox and Shift+right/left to switch between the konsole windows. >> However similar to the languages, if convention is already there, it is >> usually hard to change, because people get use to it. >> This given as argument, I see the option for Felix to change it himself >> ... there are many ways to do so. > > I don't quite see why this is addressed to me by name. It is not my > argument!!! :-/ I merely pointed out that one can produce a rational > argument for up/down. (I don't think, mind you, that rationality comes > into it.) > > If Firefox is pitched against Konsole, I instinctively stick up for TDE > against Mozilla. And left-right is in fact more instinctive to me. But > one can produce a rational argument for up/down. > > Lisi Sorry - I mixed it up - sometimes there is irrational shortcut in the brain. I also prefer the arrow keys for the konsole. In firefox I rarely use PgUp/PgDn, because in the browser one uses the mouse anyway, so why move the hand to the keyboard. I also agree with you about constructing argumentation with fallacies. This is a phenomenon that me and my wife are personally interested in. She did a thesis about fallacies in financial news. If there would be a conspiracy someone should be teaching somewhere how you make good arguments that are based on fallacy. If I had some time I would do a research from historic point of view - how this developed, because IMHO 100y ago people had different kind of education and those who graduated did not talk nonsense .... well today we have a higher rate of literacy ... but lower level of communication. Just sharing my thought off topic without being asked :) regards