Message: previous - next
Month: May 2016

Re: Re: Shift+arrow in Konsole

From: deloptes <deloptes@...>
Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 22:00:27 +0200
Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Thursday 19 May 2016 07:50:32 deloptes wrote:
>> Felmon Davis wrote:
>> > On Wed, 18 May 2016, Felix Miata wrote:
>> >> Lisi Reisz composed on 2016-05-18 16:40 (UTC+0100):
>> >>> Jan Stolarek composed on 2016-05-18 17:33 (UTC+0200):
>> >>>> As for Ctrl+Up/Down for tab switching to me this is
>> >>>> counter-intuitive. Tabs
>> >>>> are displayed horizontally. Using keys for vertical movement to
>> >>>> switch between them does not make much sense to me.
>> >>
>> >> This is why an alternate tab switching option employed in other apps
>> >> includes the tab key.
>> >>
>> >> Did you ever use a real tab, such as sheets in a ring binder or pages
>> >> in a printed manual? Those tabs are each an extension of a layer
>> >> constituted of one or more pages. Even today, paper manuals often use
>> >> pseudo-tabs, pages with contrasting colors at different positions on
>> >> pages' ends to correspond to different chapters, e.g. my Magnavox DVR
>> >> and Brother printer.
>> >>
>> >>> They are numbered 1,2,3,4 etc.  One usually regards numbers as going
>> >>> up and down.
>> >>
>> >> Not so much that as the physics of real rather than virtual tabs. Yes,
>> >> they look like they are horizontal, but each real tab is attached to a
>> >> layer. Each can overlap one or more others, completely hiding them.
>> >> One goes up and down through anything that is layered, unless the
>> >> whole layered stack is stood on end, in which case movement within
>> >> layers in the stack becomes fore and aft, not side to side.
>> >
>> > wow! people are really taking a metaphor very seriously! someone calls
>> > a bit of coding a 'tab' and that generates an argument about whether
>> > the coding should look like a book!
>> >
>> > as I vaguely recall there were similar scholastic arguments about the
>> > metaphor of a 'desktop' or 'folders' and such.
>> >
>> > these arguments are as difficult to settle as the dispute Swift
>> > recounts of the quarrel between the 'Big-endians' and 'Little-endians'
>> > in _Gulliver's Travels_! and that was causa belli!
>> >
>> > (itself a parodic mirror of the dispute between 'Catholic' vs
>> > 'Protestant' in Ireland, well of course this wasn't purely
>> > theological....)
>> >
>> > say here's what we do: let's code 'tabs' so they go up and down the
>> > right or left side for the 'Up-endians' and so they go along the
>> > bottom or top for 'side-winders'!
>> >
>> > I'm a 'side-winder' myself but will willingly concede the word 'tab'
>> > to the 'Up-endians' if they insist - what's in a name?
>> >
>> > but my fellow side-winders will insist on their metaphysics: tabs are
>> > 'really' left-right, after all some books have tabs at the top or
>> > bottom so....
>> >
>> > f.
>> Lisi,
>> "tab" is coming from the maps with tabs AFAIK - from the paper world.
>> This is a normal process in language(s) to use the description of
>> something old for something new with similar function.
>> Some are horizontal, some are vertical.
>> The relation between the tabulator button and the tab/folder is however
>> not clear to me. And to me it is a mere convention that we use ALT+Tab to
>> switch between application windows, CTRL+PgUp/PgDn to switch between tabs
>> in firefox and Shift+right/left to switch between the konsole windows.
>> However similar to the languages, if convention is already there, it is
>> usually hard to change, because people get use to it.
>> This given as argument, I see the option for Felix to change it himself
>> ... there are many ways to do so.
> I don't quite see why this is addressed to me by name.   It is not my
> argument!!!  :-/  I merely pointed out that one can produce a rational
> argument for up/down.  (I don't think, mind you, that rationality comes
> into it.)
> If Firefox is pitched against Konsole, I instinctively stick up for TDE
> against Mozilla.  And left-right is in fact more instinctive to me.  But
> one can produce a rational argument for up/down.
> Lisi

Sorry - I mixed it up - sometimes there is irrational shortcut in the brain.
I also prefer the arrow keys for the konsole. In firefox I rarely use
PgUp/PgDn, because in the browser one uses the mouse anyway, so why move
the hand to the keyboard.
I also agree with you about constructing argumentation with fallacies. This
is a phenomenon that me and my wife are personally interested in. She did a
thesis about fallacies in financial news. If there would be a conspiracy
someone should be teaching somewhere how you make good arguments that are
based on fallacy. If I had some time I would do a research from historic
point of view - how this developed, because IMHO 100y ago people had
different kind of education and those who graduated did not talk
nonsense .... well today we have a higher rate of literacy ... but lower
level of communication.

Just sharing my thought off topic without being asked :)