On Monday 19 March 2018 16:44:34 E. Liddell wrote: > On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 06:09:53 -0700 > > William Morder <doctor_contendo@...> wrote: > > On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:24:01 William Morder wrote: > > > On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell wrote: > > > > On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700 > > > > > > > > William Morder <doctor_contendo@...> wrote: > > > > > I would be curious to know what are other people's methods. I've > > > > > heard about some net installations already. > > > > > > > > Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do > > > > that much work to reinstall the software on an existing system! I'd > > > > just issue something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go > > > > to bed, and expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back > > > > up in the morning. A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than > > > > to restart from scratch (and yes, it's possible to switch out major > > > > parts of the infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=> > > > > eudev, without hosing everything or even having to reinstall any > > > > package that doesn't depend directly on the changed one). > > > > > > > > I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017), > > > > despite a major hardware refresh about midway through that period, > > > > and *never* had to start over from scratch. And the only reason I > > > > didn't just image the old root partition onto a new drive when I set > > > > up my current machine over Christmas was that I figured it was time > > > > to get rid of all the leftover cruft from more than a decade of > > > > rolling updates. > > > > > > > > E. Liddell > > > > Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff. > > Guilty. ;) > > >And I did say that > > my method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I > > must; I build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy > > anything; and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I > > really own my own computers. > > > > I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only > > in April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less > > stable, I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have > > pretty much taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and > > researching the forums. And I only know one person in the real world (not > > online) who can actually offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I > > am a computer freak, which I am not. > > > > If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at > > least bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing > > fad, and sooner or later people will wake up. > > > > In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running. > > I like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior > > knowledge. If I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system, > > that would be great. > > > > If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears. > > Unfortunately, how I get away with what I do is kind of rooted in the way > Gentoo's package manager works and how Gentoo, as a distro, differs from > Debian (and they're just about as different as can be--Gentoo is a > rolling-release source-based distro that expects you to be at home with a > command line and lacks a graphical install tool). > > A limited version of the same thing should be possible with any > rolling-release distro, but I'm not familiar with any Debian-based ones. > > > P.S. How would you go about maintaining your computers if you sometimes > > are forced to go for months at a stretch without an Internet connection? > > Right now I have a fast, reasonably stable connection, but it hasn't > > always been that way. I started saving packages to reinstall by dpkg so > > that I could keep my system running even when I am offline. > > > > I used to go to the library with my laptop, to use their connection; but > > then I would download and save packages to be used in my desktop computer > > at home, where there was no Internet. If there is a better strategy for > > survival in those circumstances, I would love to hear it. > > I don't think there's any easy way to deal with that problem, > unfortunately. Among the things I'd probably end up doing would be poking > through the old distro-specific software intended to minimize bandwidth use > for dial-up users back in the day. That, and manually pulling down certain > types of files using a download manager if the package manager couldn't > handle things on its own. That assumes that I would have *some* kind of > connection, just not a fast or stable one, though--dial-up modem, tethered > phone, whatever. I've been doing this juuuust long enough to remember how > not-fun trying to update over dial-up was. > > Gentoo's package manager keeps the files needed for a (re-)install of any > package unless you purge them manually, and copying them around to multiple > machines isn't a problem. You can also fetch packages without installing > if you pass the right flag. The idea of having to explicitly set the system > to keep stuff was part of what made me boggle. > > E. Liddell > If I can ever find a publisher to give me enough money to live in the regal style that deserve (and if I should live long enough to complete the Great Work, and if they are still actually publishing books written by human beings at that time), then maybe I can afford my very only reliable Internet connection, and I would be glad to try out Gentoo. Gentoo is only vaguely on my radar, but I do like to try out new things. One reason I usually create a root partition of 30 gb or so is that I like to download and try out lots of new stuff; but then I also get rid of whatever isn't really useful, or which only duplicates the functions of another program. When I have a reliable Internet connection, this isn't a problem; but right now I don't own my connection (and the wifi password would be absurdly easy for a child to crack). When my Internet is non-existent, I take my laptop to the library and download packages, copy them to an external hdd, then bring them home and install them on my desktop. Thanks for caring, though. Bill > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > trinity-users-unsubscribe@... For additional > commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help@... Read list > messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ > Please remember not to top-post: > http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting