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Month: March 2018

Re: [trinity-users] quick & dirty - installation & backup

From: William Morder <doctor_contendo@...>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 18:22:51 -0700

On Monday 19 March 2018 16:44:34 E. Liddell wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 06:09:53 -0700
> William Morder <doctor_contendo@...> wrote:
> > On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:24:01 William Morder wrote:
> > > On Sunday 18 March 2018 05:02:19 E. Liddell wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:13:52 -0700
> > > >
> > > > William Morder <doctor_contendo@...> wrote:
> > > > > I would be curious to know what are other people's methods. I've
> > > > > heard about some net installations already.
> > > >
> > > > Well, my response was shock that anyone would actually have to do
> > > > that much work to reinstall the software on an existing system!  I'd
> > > > just issue something like "emerge --emptytree --keep-going world", go
> > > > to bed, and expect 98% of everything to be resolved when I got back
> > > > up in the morning. A Gentoo machine is always easier to recover than
> > > > to restart from scratch (and yes, it's possible to switch out major
> > > > parts of the infrastructure, like openrc <=> systemd and udev <=>
> > > > eudev, without hosing everything or even having to reinstall any
> > > > package that doesn't depend directly on the changed one).
> > > >
> > > > I kept my old system installation for twelve years (2005-2017),
> > > > despite a major hardware refresh about midway through that period,
> > > > and *never* had to start over from scratch.  And the only reason I
> > > > didn't just image the old root partition onto a new drive when I set
> > > > up my current machine over Christmas was that I figured it was time
> > > > to get rid of all the leftover cruft from more than a decade of
> > > > rolling updates.
> > > >
> > > > E. Liddell
> >
> > Ah, but you are an actual geek, and you like this stuff.
> Guilty. ;)
> >And I did say that
> > my method was dirty. The only reason I use computers at all is because I
> > must; I build my own computers out of parts because I can't afford to buy
> > anything; and I try to stick with GNU/Linux so that I can be sure that I
> > really own my own computers.
> >
> > I've only been running Linux since about 2006, and mostly Kubuntu. Only
> > in April of 2017 did I attempt Debian. Once I get a system more or less
> > stable, I almost never need to do a full reinstallation. But then, I have
> > pretty much taught myself, with the help of some Linux books, and
> > researching the forums. And I only know one person in the real world (not
> > online) who can actually offer guidance. Otherwise, most people think I
> > am a computer freak, which I am not.
> >
> > If I ruled the world, we would all go back to horses and carts, or at
> > least bicycles. I still say that this computer nonsense is just a passing
> > fad, and sooner or later people will wake up.
> >
> > In the meanwhile, this is what I have to do to keep my computer running.
> > I like what you say, and am always willing to bow before superior
> > knowledge. If I could learn how to use your method on a Debian system,
> > that would be great.
> >
> > If you can point me in the right direction, I am all ears.
> Unfortunately, how I get away with what I do is kind of rooted in the way
> Gentoo's package manager works and how Gentoo, as a distro, differs from
> Debian (and they're just about as different as can be--Gentoo is a
> rolling-release source-based distro that expects you to be at home with a
> command line and lacks a graphical install tool).
> A limited version of the same thing should be possible with any
> rolling-release distro, but I'm not familiar with any Debian-based ones.
> > P.S. How would you go about maintaining your computers if you sometimes
> > are forced to go for months at a stretch without an Internet connection?
> > Right now I have a fast, reasonably stable connection, but it hasn't
> > always been that way. I started saving packages to reinstall by dpkg so
> > that I could keep my system running even when I am offline.
> >
> > I used to go to the library with my laptop, to use their connection; but
> > then I would download and save packages to be used in my desktop computer
> > at home, where there was no Internet. If there is a better strategy for
> > survival in those circumstances, I would love to hear it.
> I don't think there's any easy way to deal with that problem,
> unfortunately.  Among the things I'd probably end up doing would be poking
> through the old distro-specific software intended to minimize bandwidth use
> for dial-up users back in the day. That, and manually pulling down certain
> types of files using a download manager if the package manager couldn't
> handle things on its own.  That assumes that I would have *some* kind of
> connection, just not a fast or stable one, though--dial-up modem, tethered
> phone, whatever.  I've been doing this juuuust long enough to remember how
> not-fun trying to update over dial-up was.
> Gentoo's package manager keeps the files needed for a (re-)install of any
> package unless you purge them manually, and copying them around to multiple
> machines isn't a problem.  You can also fetch packages without installing
> if you pass the right flag. The idea of having to explicitly set the system
> to keep stuff was part of what made me boggle.
> E. Liddell

If I can ever find a publisher to give me enough money to live in the regal 
style that deserve (and if I should live long enough to complete the Great 
Work, and if they are still actually publishing books written by human beings 
at that time), then maybe I can afford my very only reliable Internet 
connection, and I would be glad to try out Gentoo. 

Gentoo is only vaguely on my radar, but I do like to try out new things. One 
reason I usually create a root partition of 30 gb or so is that I like to 
download and try out lots of new stuff; but then I also get rid of whatever 
isn't really useful, or which only duplicates the functions of another 

When I have a reliable Internet connection, this isn't a problem; but right 
now I don't own my connection (and the wifi password would be absurdly easy 
for a child to crack). When my Internet is non-existent, I take my laptop to 
the library and download packages, copy them to an external hdd, then bring 
them home and install them on my desktop. 

Thanks for caring, though. 


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