Well, this has turned out to be a rather fruitful discussion.� My 
attitude about TDE is a bit like the history of TeX.� If you recall 
Knuth made a long-standing offer to pay people to find errors in his 
software and he would pay them if he agreed that it was a bug, and it 
got fixed.� He did not add many new features, but instead, concentrated 
on getting all the errors out.� As a result, TeX has not changed in 
feature set, but is still used by many people worldwide as one of the 
most error-free and powerful typesetting tools available.

I am not suggested any monetary reward, but I do think that one of the 
benefits of TDE may be that eventually it could become error-free.� Many 
bugs, like this one, are caused by software interfaces outside TDE, and 
I suspect this will go on forever. But, internally, we have a chance to 
have an error-free desktop for Linux that could live for the ages.� I do 
think TDE is becoming more popular now than ever, perhaps for that reason.

I will sign off now that we think we have gotten this "bug" at least 
defined.� I will leave it to the experts to decide how best to fix it 
for the ages.

Thank you to all for your help and wisdom.

Merry Christmas.

On 12/20/19 6:52 PM, James D Freels wrote:
> Hello TDE users/developers:
>
> First, let me take this opportunity to state, once again, TDE is by 
> far, my favorite desktop.� I have used it for many years, and continue 
> to support it financially and encourage all users to do likewise.
>
> I am using debian/buster now since it's release.� I am also using the 
> "preliminary stable builds" of TDE using the following location:
>
> deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity-sb buster deps-r14 
> main-r14
>
> I am having 2 problems.� The first is with TDM, which I will describe 
> here.� I will ask for help on the 2nd problem later.
>
> In addition to tdm-trinity, I also have 2 other login managers 
> installed: lightdm and lxdm.� Both of these are working fine. Only TDM 
> has this problem.� I would much prefer to use TDM.
>
> If I boot up under TDM (after running dpkg-reconfigure tdm-trinity 
> first to initiate TDM into the boot sequence), it starts fine, but 
> continuously hangs in the main console with one of the infamous 
> systemd problems wherein we get the "a startjob is running ..." and it 
> NEVER ends until rebooted.� The TDM session appears to run fine, and I 
> can login and run TDE fine.� However, because the vt1 console is never 
> ending waiting to complete, I have no other VT consoles.� Essentially, 
> I have NO virtual consoles at all. Further, computer resources are 
> always wasted and never ends waiting for the the startup to completely 
> finish. This ONLY happens when booting up with TDM.
>
> I can bootup with LXDM or LIGHTDM and this does not happen. Further, I 
> can issue a "systemctl stop lightdm" or "systemctl stop lxdm" 
> (depending on which is running from the boot), then issue a "systemctl 
> start tdm-trinity" and TDM runs fine and there is not a never ending 
> startjob waiting to complete.� So, it appears that TDM does not start 
> in the same order of the boot sequence as LXDM and/or LIGHTDM which is 
> causing this problem.
>
> It is at this point, where I need some help in how to fix it, and I 
> suspect that all debian/buster users may have the same issue, but not 
> sure of course.� I hope I can help get his bug fixed before the final 
> release of TDE for buster.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Jim Freels, PhD (retired)

-- 
James D. Freels, Ph.D., P.E.
freelsjd@...
865-457-6742 (landline)
865-919-0320 (cell)