Hi folks I was delighted when I heard about trinity as I still use kubuntu 8.04 and will never, until death or even beyond, use kde4 or any other developer ego-driven user-unfriendly DE. I followed the instructions on the installation page: http://trinitydesktop.org/installation.php ubuntu section, and after installing ubuntu 11.10 on a spare partition, I entered the commands as instructed. Firstly, there was the known problem with the sudo command which the developers have decided to keep a secret and not edit the installation instructions to add 3 lines of text to help the user. But I was pointed to the bug page and followed the instructions there. I was able to download and start trinity (v3.5.13) and as soon as I clicked on the main menu button the system crashed and the whole panel disappeared leaving a totally blank desktop. Here is here I get really confused. I did have a look at the known bugs and this seems to be a know 'solved'? bug - I think. What is the point in having incorrect instructions to download and install a desktop which doesn't work? If someone said it was a joke created by the kde4 team it would make some sense, they would be getting a laugh at someone who was looking for a real desktop which had the end user in mind, but if this is a genuine 'alternative' then I am at a loss as to why there is any talk of trinity desktop at all. I do understand that the developers are busy working on R14 - the NEXT GREATEST THING - with the WOW factor!!!! (you remember the WOW factor?) but what is the point if the previous version doesn't work? 8:( This seems to be exactly the same attitude towards the end user as the other DE developers, or am I wrong? 8^} Is there a different installation page with instructions of how to obtain a working version of trinity? Is there a working version? Please tell me that I am wrong about everything and there is a simple explanation for all this. AND there is a working version! - hidden somewhere! Or are you the kde4 team having a laugh? !! Thanks Lou