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Month: April 2013

Re: [trinity-users] A Memory Comparison of Light Linux Desktops

From: Sergey Frolov <dunkan.aidaho@...>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 13:41:04 +0300
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 19:15:06 -0500
"Timothy Pearson" <kb9vqf@...> wrote:

> > On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 01:54:25 +0200
> > Slávek Banko <slavek.banko@...> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello everyone,
> >>
> >> you might also be interested in:
> >>
> >> http://l3net.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/a-memory-comparison-of-light-linux-desktops/
> >> http://l3net.wordpress.com/2013/04/09/a-memory-comparison-of-light-linux-desktops-part-2/
> >>
> >> It surprised me Razor-qt. I have to say that this environment is
> >> not nearly as complete and comprehensive as Trinity, but memory
> >> consumption is staggering. That would be a consequence of using
> >> Qt4? The choice to remain in Trinity with Qt3 => TQt3 seems to be
> >> a very good decision.
> >>
> >> Slavek
> >
> > I have obtained pretty much the same test results while struggling
> > to find a TDE alternative(s) using a "features / resource
> > consumption" scale. I saw no competition between the TDE and
> > Razor-Qt, because of the reasons you have mentioned. As the time
> > passes new actively developed projects like Razor-Qt tend to grow
> > larger, not smaller, so I assume the gap will only widen in the
> > future.
> >
> > It's still too early to guess, but I (wish|expect) to see E17 as a
> > major rival of TDE in 3-4 years from now.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sergey.
> 
> This discussion brings up a long-standing idea I have had.
> 
> I would like to add a "Why TDE?" page to the website; this should
> contain a brief set of paragraphs explaining why users like
> yourselves have chosen to use TDE versus another desktop.  Entries
> should not engage in bashing other desktops, but should instead
> highlight unique features of TDE that, singly or in unison, have
> swayed you to choose TDE for use in a particular setting.
> 
> Thoughts on this?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
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> 

I will try to show things like they look like from my perspective and
may be you will find something useful.

Some background:
Although I have modern hardware in my possession, my favourite
all-around machine is still an ASUS Eee PC 901, with an Intel Atom
single core CPU running at 1.6Ghz, 2GB RAM, two 4GB + 8GB slow SSD
drives. To give you a general idea: roughly it can be described as a
top-tier PIII system on steroids (amount of RAM, seek time of the block
devices).

By the time KDE3.5 reached its EOL and was about to be dropped from
Debian I already knew that KDE4 was not an option for me (way to heavy
and buggy at the time), so it was obvious that sooner or later I have
to abandon the ship, and in order to do so one needs to find out
DE-agnostic alternatives to every single KDE suite application. And to
achieve across-DE mobility I did.

Some things, however, either had no alternatives outside KDE ecosystem,
or these alternatives did not qualify in my own workflow. Here is some
of them:
kwin
kpowersave
krandrtray (it's 2013 and I have enough fingers on my palm to count all
           xrandr interfaces that actually do more good than the simple
           'xrandr --auto' command; if I ever start to program for
           desktop, it's a good project to begin with)
KDE notification framework (as a mean to hook a script to almost any
                           conceivable event)
kicker (believe me or not, it's hard to find a panel configurable enough
       to act, look and feel a bit outside of "fits everyone" point of
       view, so far only tint2 has qualified)
mount manager

This was probably the major points, but beyond that KDE/TDE have a long
list of applications one could live without or find a substitute, but
simply reluctant to do so.

Back to my case, I just want a bloat-free, robust classic desktop from
Debian stable main repository. There is nothing wrong with TDE except
the fact that it is not there. Regular attempts to find a substitute
just proved how good KDE3 series was and it was my own folly of taking
all those features for granted. Now I almost feel like I'm giving "The
grass was greener back then" speech, heh :).


I'd like to share some of my thoughts on the "Qt4-bloat" topic. It is
true, that by one reason or another transition to Qt4 resulted in
noticeable increase in RAM usage. What I'd like to debate is the
"speed" or CPU usage of Qt4 toolkit. Recently while evaluating TDE
alternatives due to upcoming Debian Wheezy release I accidentally made a
discovery which makes Qt4 look not as bad as it used to be in this
particular aspect.

I installed Razor-Qt, but accidentally forgot kwin4, and simply
launched openbox instead. Overall snappiness just blew me away, still
not as good as Qt3, but very impressive. For a moment I thought guys at
Razor-Qt hit a jackpot: I installed KDE4 and observed how the very same
set of KDE4 apps redraw itself noticeably slower. But then I started
back Razor-Qt, it launched newly installed kwin4 and the miracle was
gone. I tried kwin4 with minimal compositing and without, the results
were the same: as soon as you launch 'openbox --replace' things were
drawn a lot faster. That day I almost stayed with KDE4, but I guess I
have a bit too many custom kwin rules to walk away like that. For
someone not so kwin-bound this may be a solution.
It's worth mentioning that I had set QT_GRAPHICSSYSTEM='raster' at the
time and kwin4 memory usage hits ridiculous 65-70MB.


TL;DR: In my opinion TDE is good because of minimal set of core
applications which make it's a DE is both feature rich and
resource-wise by today's standards. The only problem with it, that you
can't find it in the main repository of today's major distributions.
Much of the talk dedicated to slow redraw of Qt4-based desktops may be
attributed to a kwin4 performance regression.

Regards,
Sergey.