I apologise to everyone else for shouting, but nothing else seems to work.  If 
this doesn't, I'll just give up and let Gene carry on in his own private 
world.

On Sunday 05 April 2015 15:37:22 Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 05 April 2015 07:44:37 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Sunday 05 April 2015 00:58:15 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Saturday 04 April 2015 17:24:23 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > > I've got several emails in this thread missing, and they are not
> > > > in my spam folder either.  Weird and somewhat annoying.  How much
> > > > else is going missing? I know some is. :-(
> > > >
> > > > Lisi
> > >
> > > Oh dear...  Since you also are posting from a gmail account,
> >
> > No, I'm not.  I'm using a Gmail address.  I'm posting from my
> > computer, using KMail, via my ISP's SMTP server.
>
> Exactly what I would be doing when I go thru a gmail or shental account.
>
> > > and the list
> > > echo is deleted, that is not surprising.  Cc: yourself, or find a
> > > different, non gmail, mail server to use would be my best
> > > recommendation. Cc'ing yourself is no guarantee the list got it, so
> > > while it would probably serve the purpose, it comes with no
> > > warranty.
> >
> > It's not emails from me that are missing, so cc.ing myself would make
> > no difference.  I don't use Gmail as an email client, only as an
> > archive and POP3 server, and I don't send through Gmail, but through
> > my ISP's SMTP server.  I always get copies of my own emails to mailing
> > lists.
>
> The point is, that apparently your ISP has farmed this email server
> function they are expected to supply, out to a gmail alias

NO THEY HAVEN'T.  I use a Gmail address.

> so gmail's 
> duplicate removal policy applies.  You can send it, but the servers
> reply of that message to you is a duplicate and deleted.

THE MESSAGES I SEND REACH ME FINE.  I SHALL GET THIS ONE.
> > If you are saying that Gmail's POP server randomly discards received
> > emails, without even putting them in either the spam folder or the
> > "bin", and other mail servers don't, this is the first that I have
> > heard of it.
>
> It does it, its not random, its a duplicate and removed.  Other people on
> the list see it, but you don't get it back, not ever from gmail.

I DIDN'T SEND THE MISSING ONES.  I get my own mails back.  I DO SEE MY OWN 
MAILS.

I
>
> From the header of this email from the trinity list that I am replying to
> right now:
>
> From: Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@...>
> To: trinity-users@...

Yes, I got that too.  I use a Gmail address.

> > If it be indeed the case, then that is a serious matter,
> > but I would expect to have heard about it in that case.
>
> Yes, it is in my opinion, a serious matter. It is also why I don't use
> either of my gmail accounts for any mailing list subscriptions.  The
> shentel address gets used by some friends where it doesn't matter, and
> it works well for that.
>
> > However, something has gone wrong.  Some emails in this thread are
> > missing. So perhaps Gmail's POP3 server has started a policy of
> > randomly discarding random emails.
>
> Their pop3 server has discarded duplicates from the gitgo, many years ago
> now. That was one of their original sales pitches if I recall correctly.

> The only real solution is to get gmail _out_ of the path used to move the
> message both ways.  One way is fine.

Gmail isn't in my SMTP path.

Please stop trying on my behalf to create a problem that isn't there.  That 
there is a problem I agree.  But you have entirely misdiagnosed it.

Lisi