On 10/20/19, deloptes <deloptes@...> wrote: > This is exactly the point. I think the time has come that systemd may be > considered working without issues. And this is exactly what I want to point > out. When you read posts about systemd and the war from 5-6y ago it might > be you get wrong impression. I am not advocating for systemd - in fact as > stated before I still don't use it (in production), but plan to give it a > try when I upgrade to buster next. I was told to give KDE4(insert other software name) a try after it "matured". By that point I was tired of wasting my time trying to make it work, especially when KDE3 worked just fine and had for the years I had been using it. I was around when systemD first started creeping in. I didn't care for it and quite frankly the costs vs benefits don't justify using it IN MY OPINION. Yes, I can install a distro and get it running with it. That's not the problem. It's when you have a problem that becomes the issue. With it consuming more & more it's gotten harder to figure out why it fails and fix it. A lot of people act like Linus is an ass but 15 years ago when I had an issue on my Thinkpad 600 I got emails from him trying to sort out the issue. He didn't send me an "WON'T FIX" because he didn't feel like taking care of it. Pottering on the other hand...... In order to get a lot of fixes with systemD, you have to install the latest version. And the latest version has more creep than the last. It was originally touted as faster boot. My file server gets rebooted when there's a kernel update - rarely. My laptop gets rebooted rarely as well. Linux and Open Source/Free Software is about choice. We CHOOSE what we want to use. I choose to not use it. Too many developers waste time reinventing the wheel instead of fixing the bugs in their code and making it use less resources. A friend told me once that programmers take advantage of all available resources. Not everyone has a 32 core system with 256GB RAM. Nor can everyone afford that. But it's an often forgotten fact. In FOSS, that's how it works and that's their choice. So, you either deal with it, fork it, or move on. In another note I worked on a Win10 system recently. Fixed the no-boot issue but couldn't get it to take updates for a week. It would install the update and get to around 80 percent and then roll it back repeatedly. Ended up being the PCIe wireless card was the issue & removed it. Worked fine then. Only reason I figured it out was because I stumbled on a post about a similar issue. Had to bill the guy extra because of the time involved. How was that fair to him? Should I bill Micro$oft? Asus? There are the real work problems that affect people.