Message: previous - next
Month: October 2019

Re: Re: Re: Advice for distro without systemD

From: deloptes <deloptes@...>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2019 23:55:36 +0200
Larry Stotler wrote:

> I was told to give KDE4(insert other software name) a try after it
> "matured". �By that point I was tired of wasting my time trying to
> make it work, especially when KDE3 worked just fine and had for the
> years I had been using it.

true for me as well. Otherwise we would not be on that list - right?!

> I was around when systemD first started creeping in. �I didn't care
> for it and quite frankly the costs vs benefits don't justify using it
> IN MY OPINION. �Yes, I can install a distro and get it running with
> it. �That's not the problem. �It's when you have a problem that
> becomes the issue. �With it consuming more & more it's gotten harder
> to figure out why it fails and fix it.

Well may be next year it will just work :D (jocking), but as mentioned I
tried the company notebook with buster (I have netboot) for testing. I left
systemd deliberately to see how it performs. I have not seen any issue.
Especially after someone revealed that bug in tdm shutting down delay.

On the other hand I use Sailfish with systemd on daily bases as main phone -
no issue at all.

> A lot of people act like Linus is an ass but 15 years ago when I had
> an issue on my Thinkpad 600 I got emails from him trying to sort out
> the issue. �He didn't send me an "WON'T FIX" because he didn't feel
> like taking care of it. �Pottering on the other hand......

I do not think so and yes we know the story, but this angel (Pottering ) has
fallen - things are not like 4-5y ago.

> In order to get a lot of fixes with systemD, you have to install the
> latest version. �And the latest version has more creep than the last.
> It was originally touted as faster boot. �My file server gets rebooted
> when there's a kernel update - rarely. �My laptop gets rebooted rarely
> as well.

I have the feeling no one wants to give it another try and it is simply not

> Linux and Open Source/Free Software is about choice. �We CHOOSE what
> we want to use. �I choose to not use it.

This is true and good to stay so.

> Too many developers waste time reinventing the wheel instead of fixing
> the bugs in their code and making it use less resources. �A friend
> told me once that programmers take advantage of all available
> resources. �Not everyone has a 32 core system with 256GB RAM. �Nor can
> everyone afford that. �But it's an often forgotten fact. �In FOSS,
> that's how it works and that's their choice. �So, you either deal with
> it, fork it, or move on.

But you see that this development in the past years is counter productive -
by splitting the teams you have less man power to work on things. And yes
the mentality also changed - basically I think the older once do not have
time or motivation and they knew what is a memory address and how a pointer

I have the feeling the newer python or java developer have no idea of this -
so everything gets dumber, larger. And Qt also changed with their concept
of qml ... cause you  know ressources are cheap - you don't need that much
binary code any more. The real truth remained hidden in embedded software
and microprocessors ... but who needs this ...

I personally thing Qt has a very good concept. KDE seems to be the prove of
the concept. This is why I decided to stick with TDE.

> In another note I worked on a Win10 system recently. �Fixed the
> no-boot issue but couldn't get it to take updates for a week. �It
> would install the update and get to around 80 percent and then roll it
> back repeatedly. �Ended up being the PCIe wireless card was the issue
> & removed it. �Worked fine then. �Only reason I figured it out was
> because I stumbled on a post about a similar issue. �Had to bill the
> guy extra because of the time involved. �How was that fair to him?
> Should I bill Micro$oft? �Asus? �There are the real work problems that
> affect people.

Yes, this crap is one single drama ... I think India is behind it - not
consciously of course ... but in the name of the profit that is all they
can deliver. I can not understand how these updates work - must be alien
technology. Installation takes forever, then you have to restart and it
goes on and at the end after may be waiting for a while it rolls back :|
Still from time to time a blue screen after 35y on the company notebook.

If you use windows you must have a 24/7 support line. The company I work for
has one from Indonesia or Malaysia - don't recall exactly. They can solve
Windows problems and also there are rear problems with the upgrades.

You can of course get Linux on the company notebook, but then there is this
office365 you have to use and many things do not work ... so not easy.

In a company I worked before I had a desktop with windows and was working
from the linux notebook via remote desktop because of all this
Mail/office/video conferencing stuff.

A big Drama! Compared to this systemd is peanuts.